Help with my boat

[Mr Sunshine]

I have a 50 ft Ocean Sport-fish (fairly new 2006 and I have kept up pretty well). I have purchased from you a year or two back the Porter Cable DA ... I also have a Northern Tools "rotary" (I am not sure if its up to the job or not) that I got a few months back... Overall the boat looks good but what I find is a few "cloudy" area that almost look like I have not got the material off ... That's not the case because I have run both machine over these areas and gone by hand...I typically have used a 1 step (duragloss or McQuires, etc) and have all the colored pads ( I use the Green mostly).... For these areas is the problem oxidation ?? Or are these product "hard to remove".... Typically a boat of this age and condition what is the best combo of products ,machine, pads to get it to "shine" ... I wax often as well but these "spots" and "leopard" looking areas drive me crazy ... Thanks for the advice

[Mike Phillips]

Since this is your first post....

Welcome to the M31 forum... :welcome:



From your description it sounds like oxidation. The PC is a great tool but it's never going to be as powerful or as effective at removing oxidation as a rotary buffer on a wool pad.

I'd recommend getting a good wool cutting pad and re-cut your hull using the rotary buffer and either an aggressive compound or a medium cut compound.

After that you can go over the hull with either your Porter Cable and a one-step cleaner/wax or a wool finishing pad on your rotary and a one-step finishing wax.

The above is a recipe for a two step approach which is a lot a work for a boat this size but there's only one other way to cut aggressively and leave the hull protected without leaving a swirled out mess on a dark gel coat and that's to use a Flex 3401 with a one-step cleaner wax.

The Flex 3401 is a forced rotation dual action polisher. It works really well for removing oxidation and laying down a coat of wax at the same time and you can use it with both wool pads and foam pads.

Here's a link to the Flex 3401...

http://www.marine31.com/best-boat-buffer.html


You can try the tools you have try to do either a one-step or two-step to your boat, really comes down to you and how much time you want to put into the project.


I think you'd find the Flex a great way to maintain your boat and keep the process to one step.

Won't leave the hull looking scoured or swirled like a rotary but has a ton more power than a Porter Cable "style" DA Polisher since it's gear driven like a rotary buffer.


Here's a video that shows the difference in the tools...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn_kVH3BVc


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

Thanks Mike

I agree about the time involved to do the multiple steps... Next time I'm at the boat I will get some pictures... I do think its oxidation in a few areas...I have been going back and forth as to what machine to buy (flex, Mikita , or dewalt)....I usually go down and spend a day or two working on it... Problem I have is multiple steps takes so long... I have all the pads ... If I get the flex and your cleaner/wax one step product .., what would be the best pad ??? Wool, orange, green ??

[Mike Phillips]

I have a 50 ft Ocean Sport-fish




Is the above the exact "name" of the hull brand? I tried to do a Google image search but I'm just coming up with generic boat pictures. If you give me the exact name and spelling of the hull I can probably get a picture of your boat just for reference.


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

It's a Ocean Yachts 50 Super Sport... There company is Ocean Yachts Inc....

[Mike Phillips]

If I get the flex and your cleaner/wax one step product .., what would be the best pad ??? Wool, orange, green ??



Actually, I'm thinking a Purple Foamed Wool Pad might just be the ticket.

I have not tried this pad on the Flex 3401 with our one-step cleaner/wax yet but I'm thinking it will not only give good cutting action but also good finishing out results.

My next boat detailing class is Thursday, June 27. That's about 2-weeks from now and I'm trying to get an oxidized dark colored boat for the class.

If this combo works, it's going to be a real home-run in the boat detailing world.


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

Mike

You will see when you find the boat ... It's a lot of work ... My biggest concern is if the flex is that much stronger than the PC or should I just get a quality rotary ... This Klutch rotary from Northern Tools I have seems to slow when I apply pressure so maybe it's not up to the task....thanks for you help

[Mike Phillips]

Mike

You will see when you find the boat ... It's a lot of work ... My biggest concern is if the flex is that much stronger than the PC or should I just get a quality rotary ... This Klutch rotary from Northern Tools I have seems to slow when I apply pressure so maybe it's not up to the task....thanks for you help


If you want to do the job the fastest and most effective way then get a quality rotary buffer a wool cutting pad and a wool finishing pad. I'd also recommend a steel spur and if you really want to make the job easier, get a pad washer.


The Flex is a totally different tool than a PC or "PC type tool". I've been using and teaching classes on how to use the PC since it was borrowed from the wood sanding industry and introduced to the paint polishing industry. As long and in most cases longer than anyone still either working in this industry or a live in this industry. So I'm very familiar with the capabilities of the PC and all the knock-offs of this wood sander.

The Flex 3401 is a forced rotation, dual action polisher. You couldn't get the pad to stop rotating no matter how hard you pressed down against it. Ain't happening.

The benefit to a rotary buffer is the pure, grunt power and ability to abrade a surface. The benefit to a Flex 3401 is lots of power but two actions, rotating and oscillating. Thus you can avoid the holograms caused by a rotary buffer.

I know in the boat detailing and boat "owning" world holograms are not as much of an issue as they are in the car detailing world for a host of different reasons.

That is until you start working on a dark colored boat.

I only type and make recommendations based upon real-world experience and I have not tried the Purple Foamed Wool Pad or any wool pad on an oxidized gel-coat surface so I don't know how well the results from this type of tool and pad will compare to a fiber pad on a rotary buffer but you can be sure I will find out.


So by all means, if you want to go with the historically time-proven method for knocking out an oxidized gel-coat boat go with the rotary buffer.


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

I think I will purchase the flex 3401 from you ... I am not sure I need the rotary... The boat is new and really looks good ... I'm just fussy and want it to shine like it came out of the factory... From your post I think it will give the cut and shine that I am lacking from the Porter Cable... I see your place when I travel down the turnpike to my boat ... I assume I can stop in and get everything there ... Is that so ??

[Mike Phillips]

I assume I can stop in and get everything there ... Is that so ??




Yes but it's best to do a "Will Call".

If you call Customer Care they can pull your order and have it waiting.


1-800-869-3011


Have the person helping you come get me as I'd like to say high and if you have a few minutes we can go out into the studio and I'd be happy to share a few tips and techniques for using the Flex 3401.


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

Will do ... Coming down next week

[smykowski]

I agree with Mike, a good compound with the appropriate pad would get rid of ANY dull or hazy spots (aside from a true defect of course). At 50', I could see someone getting discouraged from the sheer size of the job at hand. At the minimum, I'd compound and follow with a one step cleaner/polish/wax, I think you'll be happy with the results. It all depends on how much time you have and how long your shoulders/arms can take the abuse.

[Mr Sunshine]

I have to get down there and get you guys pictures.... I just am not sure what the cloudy areas are.(pretty sure it's not a defect).. I run my machines on this boat at least a couple days every two months or so-- 80-90%shines like glass... Part of the problem is its kind of a off beige color (like a Grady White) and just doesn't seem to shine as much as white.... I have read on the Internet that the Mequires one step is "hard to get off" it looks like that... If the flex 3401 is powerful enough to put the wool pad on and do some "cutting" I thinks it might be the tool for me.... It's well cared for and although I am not a professional I feel if its oxididized it's "light to medium" at the worse... I feel like I need the right tool,pad, and cleaner and I can get it to my satisfaction

[professionalpolishing]

Mr. Sunshine, I think it would be smart to have both a nice high speed and a flex dual action polisher. I have worked on a number of Ocean Yachts and it always comes out better if you high speed polish with a aggressive compound, like Marine 31 gel coat heavy cut compound then high speed a polish like Marine 31 all in one or the marine 31 gloss and color restorer. Even if you use the all in one it is best to wax after, because you lose a little durability when using a one step. Your finish work can then be done with the pc or flex test first to see which one produces the best finish. Just remember to stay inside your sections 2x2 or 3x3. Do a good test spot in both of those sizes and repeat over the whole boat. Remember stay inside of your sections. Again stay inside of your sections.

[Mr Sunshine]

I think I will go with a rotary tool ( either the dewalt or Makita ) and the heavy cut oxidation cleaner so now I just need a opinion on the pads

1) just a wool cutting pad
2) Lake Country Kompessor Purple -- I do like foam if it will work as well over wool
3) Lake Country Foamed Wool

Any advice as to what would be best ??

[professionalpolishing]

Go with the Makita or flex rotary. Wool cutting and polishing would be good. I haven't tried the purple foamed wool but I hear good things.

[professionalpolishing]

Foam doesn't work well in gel coat because it makes to much heat and tends to leave a haze.

[Mr Sunshine]

Thanks ... Is the flex worth the extra money vs Makita ?? Is it much better... So regular wool would be your choice .... Thanks for the help

[Mike Phillips]

Will do ... Coming down next week


Let me know what day when you have it figured out...



Foam doesn't work well in gel coat because it makes to much heat and tends to leave a haze.


While I agree with the above, I'm not 100% for sure it's the heat that's the issue causing the haze. It could be more just the nature of the foam?

One thing for sure, gel-coats really like fiber pads, both wool cutting and wool finishing or polishing pads.




Thanks ... Is the flex worth the extra money vs Makita ??



The Flex PE14 is my favorite rotary buffer and I'm fortunate to have the #2 serial number of production units as a gift from Bob Eichelberg the President of Flex Tools North America. My employer, Max owns the #1 production unit.

I don't say I like the Flex PE14 because Bob at Flex gave me the #2 unit I say it because I like the compact size and lightweight features.

I always reach for it first when buffing out cars and boats. Flex says you can use up to a 8" buffing pad with it but I tend to stick with 6.5" and 7" pads that we carry from Lake Country.

When you buff for extended periods of time the tool will get hot and an internal circuit that monitors heat will turn the power to the tool off until the motor cools down. I don't know of any other rotary buffer that offers this built-in safety feature. As far as lightweight, compact rotary buffers go this is my tool of choice.

When it comes to a full size model, I cut my teeth on the Makita Rotary Buffer but I did a comparison between Makita and the new DeWALT 849X and the in my opinion, the DeWALT 849X offers more features and benefit than the Makita.

I'll post my review over here today...


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

Mike

I read online the only real difference between the Flex PE 14 and Flex L 3403 was the lower speed for "jeweling" ... It also said "jeweling" is not needed with boats... Is this correct ?? If so the 3403 might work better for me... What are your thoughts

[Mike Phillips]

Mike

I read online the only real difference between the Flex PE 14 and Flex L 3403 was the lower speed for "jeweling" ... It also said "jeweling" is not needed with boats... Is this correct ?? If so the 3403 might work better for me... What are your thoughts

If you're going to get a Flex rotary polisher I'd still go for the PE14. The high RPM is 2100 RPM and that's really as fast as you're ever going to want to buff anything for any lenght of time.

The low speeds make it easy to pick up a bead of product and spread it around before bumping up to the high speeds.


:)

[Mr Sunshine]

Ok Mike after a lot of reading and research I think I will get the following
1) Dewalt 849X -for the price savings I almost have enough to get the 3401
2) your gloss and color restorer ( my worst areas are a bit better than the whaler you did)
*** I just need your advice on the best pad ***
3) your all in one -- once again the way the whaler turned out was just what I am looking for
*** I have a bunch of the CCC pads in every color -- I guess you feel yellow is best
4) I think I will also do a step of the wax and sealant

I will be down Monday and will ask for you-- I appreciate all the help

I think I will get some extensions and some smaller pads as well as th 6.5 pads

What are your thoughts on the Blue Hybrid Power Wool Pads by Lake Country -- might get one of these as well as the purple just to see how they do vs my wool one I have already